[給大家看看刺激的東西]: 台灣vs.中國之戰

Posted On 星期日, 十月 5, 2008

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這一篇文章原文出處:

http://www.wretch.cc/blog/clairecccc/18958100#comment235237535

文章中引用的reference:

http://www.mac.gov.tw/big5/un/02e.pdf

重點出來了

一位大陸人(?不知從哪裡來的人)的回覆: (by Jane tse)

You might be blind to the history. Taiwan has always been the
territory of China, whether it is the Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty
or the Republic of China. You are also blind to current
affairs. If you Taiwan people wish to get independent from
China, please return us all our gold and national treasure
CHiang Kai Shek had brought to Taiwan. The territory too! Why
Shih Ming-tek and 1 million people was not able to drive away a
corrupted president? It is because there are people blind like
you who are not able to distinguish right and wrong by cheating
yourself and turning a blind eye to history and acutality. It is
only through burying your own conscience, you Chinese people of
Taiwan can tolerate Chen Shui bian’s corruption and deny your
identity as a Chinese. Under democratic principle, we, the 1.3
billion Chinese do not give our recognition on the sovereignty
of Taiwan because Taiwan has always been an unalienable part of
China.

版豬的回應: (麻辣)

蔣介石那時轉進的東西 如果是主權到台灣 這樣的行為 並沒有不合理的地方 台灣根本不歸屬於中國為什麼硬要把我們稱作你們的附屬子民?就是因為這樣 所以你們西藏的問題才會這麼嚴重 自以為是的侵略 自以為是的專制 自以為是的霸道 遇到什麼事情就只會掩蓋下來 要不是毒奶粉造成那麼多嬰兒腎結石 也許根本不會有人知道

台灣之所以跟中國不同 因為思想理念不同
專制霸道跟民主政治 兩種不同的體制跟本不可能存於同一國 領土真的是你們的嗎?從歷史來看 有利益就找台灣 沒利益就割地賠償 大陸給過我們什麼 養過我們什麼 憑什麼台灣一副你們殖民地的樣子 就算是殖民地 比起中國 日本的建設還比大陸的建設好太多了!!!

也許陳水扁涉嫌貪污 你敢保證其他人沒貪污嗎? 不要假了 就人氣來看 說不定馬的拿一次比陳水扁拿10次還多 只是有沒有錢去掩蓋這樣的"毒錢"事件而已吧!!還沒超過大陸貪污的標準值 所以不會被挖出來 對待台灣人跟大陸人的標準 一向都是這麼雙重標準的不是嗎? 錯誤本來就要承擔 貪污並不是對的 我也沒有說陳水扁是對的 但是政治追殺是事實

不需要否認我不是中國人 因為本來就不是何來否認? unalienable? 這只是另一個西藏問題重現台灣 又一個自以為是的說法 也許你也該去讀讀歷史 不過我想大陸史跟台灣史應該寫的都不一樣吧 也許亞洲所有國家在你們所謂的歷史 都是unalienable part.

Here I would like to give again you some advices. Independence
and sovereignty are things created by the West for people of the
East to fight among people of the same nation. Independence and
sovereignty are also mobilized by the American politician to
strip colonials away from Western powers because the American
are late comers of the colonial war. You have to face the
reality that 23 million Taiwan Chinese cannot over-rule the 1.3
billion mainland Chinese and many other Chinese scattering all
over the world. By democratic principle or authoritarian rule
of the mainland,and by the international law, the independence
of Taiwan is impossible, particularly when the People’s Republic
of China is a permanent member of the UN security council.

版豬的回應: (麻辣)

沒錯 獨立這種字眼絕對沒辦法出現在中國 所以西藏獨立 就是被流血鎮壓這樣而已 一味把別人看做自己的殖民地 枉顧人權專斷獨行不准有異言 這就是你們一貫的作風 台灣人並不想統治大陸人 所以我也不需要面對這種無謂的事實 台灣獨立不獨立 不是你喊一喊就算的 台灣也曾是UN的一員 這你不能否認 因為當時政體制度完全不同 現在也是 土地 人民 政府 主權 台灣並不是沒有 而是各大國 礙於大陸的強勢 所以我們一直被壓制 加上台灣的內賊 公投才沒過 如果你曾聽過impossible is nothing 的話 台灣的獨立 並無不可能 同樣的 西藏也是

So, you pan-green people better end your own imagined war with
other part of the Taiwan society and be friendly with those
pan-blue Taiwanese people, living together in harmony and forget
about abstract things like independence, sovereignty and
identity. They are jargons of the last century. We’re are in a
new global century. Nations and national boundries are abstract
things share to separate people and grow hatred. We are on the
same boat and sharing the same fate. There is no need to cling
on corrupted people and party sacrificing your real interest of
a stable, harmonious and prosperous Taiwan. Open your eyes to
the world and to the motherland of China, not to bury your head
to the sand.

版豬的回應: (麻辣)

這並不是泛藍泛綠的問題 而是我們同樣都處在台灣這條船上 我們只是不想被打壓 如果你想要談所謂的harmony 那對準台灣的砲彈你要怎麼解釋 在unfair的情況下你想跟人家說和諧 是不是自己做賊的喊抓賊? 我都替你感到不好意思了…台灣跟大陸當然可以共存阿 在no harm no hurt的情況下 我們本來就存在同一個世界了 也是你知道的事實 那你有friendly的對待我們嗎? 要講這些以前 先看看你們自己怎樣對待台灣吧 台灣也不想與大陸為敵 並不是每天吃飽沒事做 但如果要來談和諧 這我想台灣比大陸有資格好幾百倍 而不是由大陸人來叫囂 需要打開眼睛的是你自己 什麼motherland… 有mother會餵毒奶給小孩吃的我還是第一次聽到 我看是step-motherland吧 台灣就像是灰姑娘 有這麼多step-sister在助這個毒奶step-mother為虐 包二奶 毒奶不是從你們那邊傳出來的喔? 不要以為會哺乳的就是mother好嗎…尤其還是餵那種亂七八糟食物的mother勒…monster會不會比較適切阿…?

The world is full of colour, as yourself have probably aware.
There is not only Green in the world. Apart from actual colour
we can see with our eyes, there are right and wrong, which we
see with our conscience. Be a real person living independently
from abstract values manipulated by politicians. Politicians are
wicked, they need people to monitor.This is the true meaning of
democracy. Democracy means rule of the poeple, rule by the
people, rule for the people. The ultimate goal of democracy is
the welfare and benefit of the people. We better not get
ourselves lost in abstract jargons of democracy and forget about
our own interset.

版豬的回應: (麻辣)

當然這世界是多彩多姿的 不過你們的國家也許只有紅色吧!!! 這世界當然不是只有綠的阿 你說i may be blind to the history, 你是不是也可能有色盲呢…? 人民當然不能被政治人物所操弄 但國家是我們所共有的 當然可以發出一些意見阿 不過也許你不懂吧 畢竟民主在大陸可能不是很風行… 難道你說出那些話 就不代表你沒有被大陸的政治人物所操弄嗎 這並沒有一個的道理好嗎… 也許不要忘記民主初衷是提醒你自己的吧 如果你有這種想法 就不會有這麼迫切的妄想症想要台灣人硬說自己是中國人 基本上 人種並無差別 所以請你不要強迫我們好嗎? Be democratic!

So, open your eyes and defend a clean Taiwan rather than
tolerate corruption. Politicians are liers. Use your
intelligence to judge things independently and see clearly what
are the real need of yourself and that of the PEOPLE of Taiwan
as a whole.

版豬的回應: (大辣)

我想這段話是給你自己的信心喊話吧 既然你有這樣的自覺 我也no comment了, thank you for your attention~!

看完這一位Jane Tse的回應

不知道各位看官

你們要怎樣回應呢?

Yours,

MB

廣告

8 Responses to “[給大家看看刺激的東西]: 台灣vs.中國之戰”

  1. clairecccc

    哩金Awful XD

  2. michaelltaiwan

    ha!! 我剛剛看到Jㄝ!!
    說不定是J回喔的
    金Awful XD

    Yours,
    MB

  3. jane tse

    Political difference cannot be used to conceal the fact that Taiwan has always been the sovereign territory of China. There is no government in this world would claim that they are not a democratic government. Even the People’s Republic of China, Ex-Soviet Union and the US after the 911, they all are executing authoritarian and oligarchical leadership rather than offering the people opportunity to rule. Had your ex-president Chen Shui bian any restraint in exercising his power to change the name of the Republic of China? Had he asked the other big half of the pan-blue people whether they would like to remove the penal in the CHiang Kai shek memorial hall? Has your ex-president and ex-government official ever asking whether your Taiwan people to allow him doing money laundry and getting commission in all government expenditure ?
    If democracy is about rule of people, what do you think if we people in the mainland and people in Hong Kong and Macao rule that Taiwan should belong to China? Doesn’t this a majority rule over the faith of Taiwan? So, do not use a political system to justify your separatist intention. I do not think that over 1.3 billion chinese would agree that Taiwan is a sovereign territory though Taiwan might be exercising your autonomous government of the island, which we, the rest of the Chinese nation would not oppose if it is not for the separation of our sovereign territory.

  4. jane tse

    What I wish to highlight here is that we people ought to free ourselves from the ideological confrontation of last century. In a true democracy, the government would only reflect the wish of the people. I believe that everywhere people do not want war, everywhere, people wish to have peace, stability and prosperity. Poliitcal parties are principal bearers of social conflicts in a democracy. It is with these conflicts, political parties compete for power. As a consequence, we people are sacrificed for the narrow interest of some politicians, we have clearly seen that in your ex-president. The more cleavage beween the mainland and Taiwan, the more personal interest (money) he can “A". The more cleavage between the mainlander Taiwanese and the Taiwan born Taiwanese, the more money he can “A". The more cleavages in the Taiwan society, less popular scrutiny on government can be done. Truth can become false and false becomes the right. People would be blinded from law and harmony. Can you see that your elected representatives can openly beaten a civilian, a professor coming for academic exchange? Can you see how a suspected super corruptive ex-president can openly defy the rule of law and your legal personnel? Democracy is just an ideology feeding us with an utopian vision so that we can die for those who have personal agenda. The real people who wish to serve the people would not wish their own society and their own people being split up by ideologies. From this, you can see what is real demcracy, which Taiwan has not yet built up one. Democracy has nothing holy. It is only a political system, some rule of the political games. What is important in this system is its central mechanism of competition. Successful consolidation of your democracy does not hinge on which party has the power to separate Taiwan from China. It hinges on how you can institutionalize a mechanism for a peaceful contest of power within the rule of law serving the well beings of the Taiwan people. Whether you have autonomy does not lie on whether you can separate an inseparable piece of territory from a big country with 1.3 billion people, for this is only a dream. It is on how you attitude to admit the fact and your limitations. We all live under limitations. It depends on how we coexist with our limitations and prosper ourselves. Besides, sovereignty and boundary have long become irrelevant in this global era. If we imprison ourselves in these abstract concepts created by the Westphalian treaty of Europe in the 15th Century, we cannot survive this new era.

  5. jane tse

    This is just to clarify that I am a Hong Kong Chinese, not a mainlander. I share the same experience of living in a Chinese territory but ruled by colonial government. I do not have a confused national identity because I do not depend on demagogue to tell me who I am.

  6. jane tse

    我是在香港的殖民統治下長大的人,受殖民地的教育,受西方主流民主思想的薰陶。香港回歸祖國後,我仍然肯定殖民地政府一手建立的法制,法治與一個相對清廉的公務員架構,但我沒有懷念為二等人的日子。我去過歐洲住了一個短時期,發現了歐洲國家對子民,猶如父母對子女的保護與栽培。反觀殖民地的子民,沒有國家的人,猶如一個孤兒。香港有一部份菁英,懷念自己在殖民統治下如何的風光,回歸後失去了優越的地位,未能在回歸後社會權的重新洗牌,實力不足的,往往對新政府以至中央懷恨於心。對於回歸,再次成為一個己經開放的社會主義國家的子民,我是充滿喜悅,不過也積極觀察。我感受到香港人不再是一群受殖民地統治的國際獨兒,亦明白到國家民族的身份未有確立的個人與群體不可能有長遠的目標。我所表達的祇是代表了個人分析(我所表達的完全是一個國制研究與社會科學(政治學)學生的私人觀點,並不是為大陸做統戰的),並沒有受大陸的政治人物所操弄,是一個香港人的親身體驗。台灣的同胞應該積極地思考,大家都明白,十三億中國人以至全世界華人都不會放棄台灣領土的主權。台灣獨立的可能性不大,與其身份不明,國家不立,不如積極地在現實的框架下,趁著現時大陸發展勢頭大好,領導人又如此的開明,政策又靈活的好時機(大家是中國人,都明白中國人的脾性),跟大陸坐下來談談,台灣現時可能是得到最大好處的時機。再一次聲明,這完全是一個國際研究與社會科學學生,網上交流的一些私人觀點。跟國家任何政策完全沾不上關係。

  7. jane tse

    民主的初衷是什麼?民主政制本來就是人類文明政治演變出來的一個制度,政治權力由高度集中演變成各階層精英輪流享受權力,何高尚之有,人民得到的是什麼,祇是零碎的益處。人民有選舉權,卻沒有實在的話事權。現今世代的所謂民主都是以精英為中心的政制。何平等之有?除非所有政策都用公投,才比較稱得上真正人民民主。時代的演變,不同的國家、社群演變有著不同的步伐。違反正常社會演變的制度都不會一蹶即就,台灣的民主改變,在民進黨未有能力成為一個真正有實力的執政黨前,陳水扁在李登輝的協助之下,躍升總統職位,兩顆子彈,讓他再執政四年,今天反而牽連民進黨。什麼政制都是一個管治的模式,正如鄧小平白貓黑貓的比喻,會捉老鼠的都是好貓。在全球化資訊科技一日千里的今天,已經沒有領導與政府可以隻手遮天。什麼民主不民主都是兩次大戰與冷戰時期的意識型態,宣傳的產品,亦好像台灣的本省人與外省人,都不一樣是在台灣一起生活了超過半個世紀的人。省籍的對峙祇是政治手法,用來標簽,將生活在同一個社會的群體人為地分隔,使其互相仇視,根本完全違背了民主社會的真義。因此,單單有普選並不是真正的民主。什麼是民主,其實很難作一個標準,由其是今天,沒有一個人與政府說自己不民主,祇是互相對罵,指責對方不民主,那個才是真民主,真的要用鄧小平的標準,可以令人民安居樂業,有法治保障人權、自由與平等,都可以稱得上是民主。歐美各國不剛剛將很多企業國有化,美國更加以立法手段來剝奪一些企業高層與公司合約訂明的花紅與獎金,這不一樣違反了民主中的人權,也違反了治中的合約精神?今天金融風暴之大環境中,民主往那裡尋呢?大家不如作實事,當所有人都說自己擁護民主,民主的口號己不可以再騙人了!

  8. jane tse

    A good song to share:

    http://groups.wenxuecity.com/discussion.php?gid=727&pid=48395

    What do you Taiwan Chinese feel after enjoying this song of an American Chinese?

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